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Horse with poor brakes

JoeR
New Member

Oct 16, 2005, 8:34 AM

Post #1 of 14 (1224 views)
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Horse with poor brakes	Can't Post

I have a 16yo TB gelding that doesn't like to stop. Once you get him going, he wants to keep going. Lots of fun to ride until you are ready to slow down. When I start to pull on the reins, he tucks his head under and goes faster. I have to pull him into a turn to get him to break stride. I think at one point someone taught him to barrel race since he turns so sharply and fast that I almost come out of the saddle! As a matter of fact I have been thrown out of the saddle in that manner. (That was a long fall, thinking about getting a pony Cool

to ride). Anyway, I think he was taught to pull on the bit since it is a real workout to stop him. I am using a full cheek snaffle type bit, and I wonder if I need to train me or him more along with using a different bit?

Joe

JimHess
Silver Member

Oct 16, 2005, 9:32 PM

Post #2 of 14 (1209 views)
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Re: [JoeR] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Joe, maybe what you need is a curb bit. God bless a horse that goes quietly in a snaffle, but it doesn't work for my guy. You could try a "tom thumb", which is a snaffle with shanks. There are all types of curb bits, from mild to severe. I use a mild one, just enough to get the results I need - brakes! -Jim

-Jim

JoeR
New Member

Oct 16, 2005, 9:41 PM

Post #3 of 14 (1204 views)
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Re: [JimHess] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks Jim! I thought about a curb bit too, but not sure which one. Which one do you use? I prefer to start with something gentle since the snaffle doesn't seem to get his attention, but I don't want to go to the extreme.

Thanks again,

Joe

JimHess
Silver Member

Oct 16, 2005, 11:17 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1202 views)
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Re: [JoeR] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Joe, if you go to a curb bit, you'd be wise to start with a mild one. If you look through a horse supply catalog, there are a million to choose from, but I think a mild one would have fairly short shanks, not too thin mouthpiece, and a low "port" or the curvature of the mouthpiece. The one I'm using came with a previous horse, who could be hard to stop at times, bless his soul. My wife calls it a "sweetwater bit". As I said before, we've also had good luck with a tom thumb, or western training bit. They are snaffles with shanks. It's important not to abuse the extra leverage you get. As much as necessary, but as light as possible, and his reward is when ease up when he responds to you. -Jim

-Jim

CJuneau
Bronze Member

Oct 17, 2005, 11:14 AM

Post #5 of 14 (1178 views)
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Re: [JoeR] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi!
A friend of mine retrains horses off of the track and has had much luck with a Bitless Bridle...as many of the TB's that once raced(sounds like your boy may be an off tracker) like to take a hold of the bit and run. If the other bit suggestions don't yield the result you are looking for, it is an option. WWW.Bitlessbridle.com. Even if you decide not to go this route, the information is interesting.

Cowboydoc
Member / Moderator

Oct 17, 2005, 3:23 PM

Post #6 of 14 (1170 views)
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Re: [JoeR] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

If he's a TB he probably was started as a racehorse. A racehorse is taught to run through the bit. The harder you pull the harder he is going to run. As far as getting a bigger bit that's only going to lead to bigger challenges. Likey he will get sore mouthed, start head tossing, and very likely go over backwards the first time that you pull hard with a bigger bit.

You need to retrain him. And to do this you have to start in a controlled environment like a roundpen. If he does take off then he can't go very far. Start out at a walk. And then very lightly, with more pressure on one rein that the other, sit down in the saddle, say whoa, and hold the pressure on the reins. Likely the horse will just keep going right through the bit. Just continue to hold the pressure, not increasing or decreasing the pressure. As soon as the horse stops then release the reins completely. The horse needs to learn to look for the release. You will need to do this hundreds of times everyday. When your 100% of the time will stop immediately when you sit down, say whoa, and pull slightly, move on to the trot. It will be a slow process again. And finally move on to the lope.

This is really the only way you are going to get a truly reliable stopping horse. A bigger bit just leads to bigger problems.

JoeR
New Member

Oct 17, 2005, 9:30 PM

Post #7 of 14 (1148 views)
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Re: [CJuneau] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks CJuneau. That is a great site. I put it into my favorites.

Thanks,

Joe

JoeR
New Member

Oct 17, 2005, 9:41 PM

Post #8 of 14 (1144 views)
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Re: [Cowboydoc] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

That is what I was worried about too Cowboydoc. He does exactly what you said and pulls through the bit. That's why I thought he may need a different bit and training. He is actually a well trained horse, I think I am the problem sometimes since he knows how to outsmart me. The only other problem I had with him was doing a water crossing. He kept trying to turn around and walk away, but I would point him back towards the stream. Then he just started walking backwards almost 100 yards since he knew I was going to point him at that stream. Cool

As soon as my wife took her 23yo QH mare across, then he crossed.

Thanks,

Joe

Cowboydoc
Member / Moderator

Oct 18, 2005, 8:47 AM

Post #9 of 14 (1128 views)
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Re: [JoeR] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

I wouldn't worry about the stream crossing. That is exactly how horses act. Especially ones that haven't crossed water before. Horse have very poor depth perception. The horse looks at the water like you would a very deep hole. No way you would step in it. The horse needs to learn that it won't hurt them. By your wife's horse going first that showed him that it was ok. When we are working with young horses we always take another horse with. It's usually the easiest way to get them over their fear of crossing water.

Mark4510
Silver Member

Oct 18, 2005, 3:10 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1114 views)
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Re: [Cowboydoc] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Cowboydoc is right on track. I would for sure start working from the ground and then start doing it at a walk, then jog and then lope. One thing you might add to the routine is, when starting at the walk, whoa should mean stop and take one step back. This really reinforces whoa. Just like Richard said, as soon as you get an effort in the right direction.......RELEASE.

I might also offer a differing opinion on the bit situation. If you are going to do some ground work or start over, I would not be afraid to change the bit. There are many different types snaffles and its amazing the difference a bit can make. Most horseman will change out the bits they use periodically because it�s a whole set of different queues. It seems to wake up their minds a bit more and then they associate that bit with a different way of doing things.

The other thing�..see if you can get into a clinic with a good clinician. If you can ever get into a Ray Hunt or Bryan Neubert clinic its money well spent. Not sure there are too many others that are anything other than a gimmick.

Regards,
Mark

lkvaughan
Member

Oct 19, 2005, 6:18 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1084 views)
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Re: [JoeR] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

when i used to ride steeple chasers we rode them all in a breast collar and held it with the reins- so when you pulled on the reins it put pressure on the chest- the pressure on the breast collar steadied them and kept them from running away from us- if he was race trained you might try that...

as for a stronger bit- i agree with the others- it might work for a while but he needs some re-education- teach him to go thru his back into the bit and then he wont duck his head behind the bit- lotts of up/ down transitions at the walk/trot and trot canter to reinforce that he has to listen to you

a curb type bit will only increase his tendancy to tuck his head- due to the action of the bit...

you might actually consider a snaffle with 2 breaks (or none)- some horses with low ports dont like the pressure of the break pressing on the roofs of their mouths when you pull on the bit....

you might try an anti-pull nose band- a kineton noseband that is used by eventers http://www.bitofbritain.com/...s/nosebandsindex.htm or even a hackmore- but the pull and release is more important with a hackmore than with other bits.....
another option might be a 3 ring elevator- with 2 reins- ride him on the snaffle ring normally and when you need more brakes use an take up the additional rein on one of the lower rings- the elevators action will raise his head

taking some lessons with a reputable trainer or find a clinic would also be great!

good luck!

JoeR
New Member

Oct 19, 2005, 10:19 PM

Post #12 of 14 (1071 views)
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Re: [lkvaughan] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for all the tips. Once I get through hurricane season, I hope to track down a trainer. This is never an easy task. I really want the trainer to teach me how to handle him since training of a horse only lasts so long. If the rider doesn't reinforce the training then all is lost.

Thanks,

Joe

Trailblazer
New Member

Oct 20, 2005, 6:45 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1045 views)
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Re: [JoeR] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

Good luck Joe. While you're waiting for the end of hurricane season, you might look for a copy of the October 2005 issue of Perfect Horse. In it, John Lyons discusses the "slow down" cue. Even if you get a trainer, it wouldn't hurt to get a little more info. Or just try Cowboy Doc's advice and you may find you don't need the trainer. A whomper-stomper bit or other mechanical rigging will not help you consistently stop a 1300 pound animal.

Trailblazer

Becky Montanya
Member

Oct 24, 2005, 8:51 PM

Post #14 of 14 (1007 views)
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Re: [Cowboydoc] Horse with poor brakes [In reply to]	Can't Post

I completely agree with Cowboy Doc. It sound like this horse needs some serious retraining before someone gets seriously hurt.
I am a big fan of the round pen. I would restart him over from the ground up. By this I mean I would start him off as if he has had no training. Start teaching him to lead and learn voice commands on the ground. I wouldn't even get onhis back for the next few weeks, possibly months. It is easier to train a horse than retrain them.
JMHO

Becky Montanya

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