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electric fencing

stork
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Nov 9, 2005, 11:46 PM

Post #1 of 11 (1173 views)
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electric fencing	Can't Post

Hello,
I'm pretty new to both this forum and to horse ownership. We purchased a 10 acre farm in May and are working to make it into a nice place to possibly board horses in the future.
I have a question about electric fences and am wondering why most horse stables use rail or board fencing? It seems like the horses contribute to a lot of wear and tear on those fences. We currently use electric for a horse and pony we own and have had not a single problem. Am I being naive?
Our property is also low lying and the ground is mostly clay currently we use the tractor bucket to push down the posts. Do you think if we brace the corners properly and minimize the tension on the fence we will still have the posts lean inwards over time?
There had been numerous small fenced pastures, (the spruce rail and post type) but they were so rotten that the previous owners 8 horses were out almost daily, so we just spent the summer pulling it all down and disassembling what had been here previously. In addition, none of the rails had been smoothed so there were loads of the little branch stems sticking out (seemed pretty dangerous to me). In thinking about configurations for fencing pastures are there things I need to be considering? (ie. small pastures, larger ones, access to run in shelters, gates, proximity to hay sheds, water etc?)
Looking for lots of guidance!
Smile

Thanks

Mark4510
Silver Member

Nov 10, 2005, 1:07 PM

Post #2 of 11 (1159 views)
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Re: [stork] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

Stork,
First of all, welcome to HorseByNet (HBN) and its sister sites TBN (Tractor By Net) and CBN (Country By Net).

It would take a book to answer your question and there are a lot of opinions.

I will give you my opinion to start the conversation. The primary reason folk’s use some sort of solid fencing is so horses see it and so they don’t run through it. A horse that is spooked may not see a hot wire set up and run through it causing serious injury.

In my opinion the best fencing for horses (and a lot of really great folks will disagree with me) is a multi railed welded pipe fence with no climb on the inside and a hot wire on the top and/or bottom.

This forms the best physical barrier to keep horses in, the no climb keeps them from getting through the rail and the hot wire helps deter them from challenging the fence. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea in terms of looks but I think it’s the best horse fence out there.

Most ranch and western breeders/trainers use this set up. I think that some of the English folks lean more towards the esthetics and go with vinyl or wood.

I will let others who feel strongly about their choices chime in.

Regards,
Mark

lkvaughan
Member

Nov 11, 2005, 9:39 AM

Post #3 of 11 (1147 views)
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Re: [stork] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

I will second what mark said- welcome!!

and you are right- horses are hard on fences....

Personally I use electric fence for interior fences- to divide up fields for rotational grazing, ect.. and to keep horses off of the perimeter. I dont trust if for the exterior perimeter since i have seen too many horses run right through it...

i do have a friend that has a 4-5 strand electro-braid fence that she really likes- it is more substancial than 'regular' electric fence so they are less likely to run though it http://www.electrobraid.com/safety.html

when i was in TX everyone used the metal pipe fencing that mark describes- i am from TN and everyone that i know used plank and board &/or wire... i asked one of the ag profs about it and he said its simply a supply type thing- on the east coast we have tons of trees- so wood fencing is cheap and readily available- in TX there arent that many big trees so they use the metal pipes....

my personal prefrence is the vinyl fencing- we have the type that looks like boards but is one long continious strip- if a horse spooks and runs into the fence the fence gives, but usually keeps the horse where it is supposed to be- with wood it will break, pipe stops a horse dead, and wire can result in some nasty cuts (note- i REALLY dont like the high tension wire- seen some bad injuries and good horses put down).... we do have electric incorporated in to keep the horses off the fence and horse wire (has smaller holes so they cant climb it) on the inside of the perimeter (helps keep dogs and other critters out)

you deffinately want to consider the design and layout of your farm when building fences- for example, its much easier to have the all the fields in contact with the barn (or accessed through an alley) than to have to lead all the horses back and forth each time- there are some good publications out there that have some good things to think about- if you search google you will find pleanty- i know that several of the university extension services have them (UTK, UK, Texas A&M, ect....) as well as other sources- cherry hill has a web site that has lots of good info (http://www.horsekeeping.com/ under the articles link)

smaller paddocks are better so you can rotate the horses and let some rest (again there are lots of resources on pasture management on the net)

another good resource for all things farm related is your local county extension agent- they are invaluable!

here are a few web articles that i have seen on fencing...

http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/freepubs/pdfs/ub037.pdf http://www.redbrand.com/...fence/horsefence.pdf http://www.americanfenceassociation.com/page.cfm?pageid=1710 http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/...ences_for_horses.pdf

http://www.iedsopra.com/PDF/marketstreet.pdf

good luck! please ask lots of questions!

kelly

Mark4510
Silver Member

Nov 11, 2005, 1:46 PM

Post #4 of 11 (1142 views)
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Re: [lkvaughan] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

Stork,
One of the great things about this site, as well as TBN/CBN, is that you can get great people that have different experiences and different ideas on what works best.

That being said I am going to respectfully disagree with Kelly on this issue……but not by very much.

If Kelly is talking about 2-4 rail vinyl fencing then I am not a fan. I have never seen it stop a horse that is running off and sure won’t stop a rustler. If it is the vinyl coated wire (like Centaur) I like that better for sure but it you run into the same problem of horses trying to stick body parts through it and it does nothing to stop rustlers. Kelly mentions that a welded pipe fence will stop a horse in its tracks and, to some degree, that is true, but they usually have some flex and if you run no climb on the inside you distribute any impact over a larger area. Of all the fences this one does the best to stop rustlers. And don’t underestimate how many horses disappear every year due to rustling.

A wood fence is pretty good also as long as you cover it with no climb. I have seen very well made wood fences not hold up to a panicked 1200 horse. The downside is that when they break they tend to splinter and leave really jagged edges for the critters to get impaled on. The story is very different if you add no climb to the inside of the fence.

Any way….that’s how I see it and I think most horse owners end up installing a fence based on what is pretty good for a horse and that they like the looks of. Maybe I am just being cynical.

Kelly has given you some great resources and I completely agree with her that the layout of a facility goes a long way to making it usable and horse friendly.

Regards,
Mark

lkvaughan
Member

Nov 11, 2005, 2:14 PM

Post #5 of 11 (1141 views)
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Re: [Mark4510] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

i think mark and i must surf the site at the same time! lol

i will second what mark said- just like with about everything else- with horses there are about as many ways of doing things as there are people to talk to Smile

in my oppinion the best thing to do is to talk to as many people you can, go and visit farms with different fences- ask them what they like/dislike, read up on the subject- and then incoperate it all to what suits you the best- there are advantages and drawbacks of just about every kind of fence there is.... and good and bad stories to go allong with them all

regarding the vinyl, i was refering to the centaur fence- not the board plank type... we have hot wire incoperated with it to keep the horses from leaning into it- they now have a new one that acually has the hotiwre incorperated into the fence- pertty cool...

i have not had an personal experience with the pipe fence-so i will have to defer to mark on it- you very rarely see it in the south east- the farm that i rode at in TX had plank and no-climb- which is what i think mark and i both agree on- no climb (or horse fence) is a great addition to almost any fence- and a necessity if you go with woven wire- i have seen horses try to climb regular woven wire and get their legs completely twisted in it.... not a pretty site

as mark said- pipe is probably about the only thing that will come close to stoping rustlers- again, i have never had an experience with them, or known anyone that has had a horse stolen- although it does occur more than we like to realize- is it more prevelant in the west vs the east??

again- this is getting to be a great site for information from a wide variety of people with different backgrounds and experiences....

happy fence building!
kelly

stork
New Member

Nov 11, 2005, 10:58 PM

Post #6 of 11 (1123 views)
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Re: [lkvaughan] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wow, that's a lot of info.! Thanks to you all for being so welcoming!

Horse rustling? Where I live in Manitoba, Canada... it's a fairly densely populated horse area (I think we have the largest per capita of horses in all of Canada in this particular Municipality) but I have never heard of any horses being stolen/or rustled...only in movies Crazy

. More often I have seen neighboring horses escape the fencing only to be lured into a coral and fed, maintained etc while the person pops round all the local horse barns to find out who's missing a horse. Oh well maybe that's why our licence plates say "Friendly Manitoba".

Back to fencing, there are a few people here who simply use the white/yellow braided tape fence for a 'visual' top line for the horses with one or two lower lines of electric. I have heard though that in windy areas the top tape breaks apart more quickly, I am hoping not to have to replace fences too often so am thinking this may not be beneficial as I have few trees on my property (thus lots of wind from all sides). I don't intend on maintaing a high tension line either. Do people tend to make electric fence lines tight? I think I will review the sights you suggested and then post more questions as they occur.

Thanks for all your help.

Stork

FFC_Fencing
New Member

Nov 14, 2005, 1:49 PM

Post #7 of 11 (1103 views)
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Re: [stork] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

Stork: There have been some good replies to your questions already posted. We have always looked at fencing from two perspectives: Physical barriers and psychological barriers. Most good fences are actually a combination of the two. There are very few, if any, types of fences that will completely stop a running horse. The best plan is to build a fence that the horse thinks will stop him. The best way to make him think that is to train him with a little spark from an electric wire. The addition of electricity allows you to build a much less imposing (and expensive) fence and still have it serve the purpose.

We have used PVC fence for horses since 1981 and it has performed very well. For situations where horses are going to be "running into" the fence on a regular basis, a tensioned fence like the Centaur rail may be a better choice. Even with that type of fence we always recommend a conductor for training purposes. A horse that is trained to avoid a fence is hard to even chase into one.

The addition of an insulated conductor to a fence simply lets the horse know that the fence is not it's play thing and to avoid it. I sometimes relate it to customers like this: If you buy a new couch and the kids climb on it with muddy boots, you probably correct the kids in such a way as to prevent that from happening in the future. That correction for a horse, in this case, can come from the electric charge.

Mark4510
Silver Member

Nov 14, 2005, 5:54 PM

Post #8 of 11 (1092 views)
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Re: [FFC_Fencing] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

FFC – I agree completely with your comment “Physical barriers and psychological barriers. Most good fences are actually a combination of the two. There are very few, if any, types of fences that will completely stop a running horse. The best plan is to build a fence that the horse thinks will stop him. The best way to make him think that is to train him with a little spark from an electric wire.”

I am, however, going to respectfully disagree that a PVC (5’ 3-4 rail hallow rail and post assembly) with a hot wire is an good solution for a perimeter fence. My concern is that any fence tends to work…..until it doesn’t. So the question becomes at what point does it fail to do its job? Based on that, we plan for worst case situations whenever possible which, for us, is a stout enough steel pipe fence.

Most horses are pretty good most of the time and, as you say, once they learn to not challenge a fence they usually don’t. Test it occasionally? Of course…. Sly

It’s the horse that has lost all reason that runs into a fence. And I can’t see how PVC is going to stop that horse even with no climb on the inside.

I think you are on track that Centaur is better than PVC but once you run it 4 strands it starts to get pricey and the maintenance is high. The Burbank equestrian center has used that for years and, even though they tension it frequently, any run longer than about 8’ starts to sag pretty quickly. Oddly enough, it’s the top half that seems to stretch out and fall down over the bottom wire. Perhaps they have come up with a newer design or better materials but, based on what they use at Burbank, it does not look like an ideal solution over time.

I guess folks choose fencing for many different reasons but, for me, if you are going to pick it out for the horses safety I can think of any thing that beats a pipe fence although a good solid wood fence might be close assuming no climb and hot wire on both.

Mark

FFC_Fencing
New Member

Nov 15, 2005, 6:45 AM

Post #9 of 11 (1080 views)
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Re: [Mark4510] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

Mark: What we try to do is balance the function of the fence, the aesthetics of the fence and the cost of the fence. In this market a steel pipe fence is very expensive. I do agree that if one must have a completely physical barrier, maybe a pipe wall needs to be the choice.

A number of years ago, we built a surgery recovery stall in an equine vet clinic using 7' tall ss40, steel pipe gates. these gate were then covered with padding from top to bottom. This allowed the horse to come out of anesthesia, fall into the fence with it's full force, and still be safe. Over the years that was as close to a complete physical barrier as we have ever been asked to build. It was very expensive, but served the purpose. (It may be a bit of an over kill for pasture fence however.)

justmartha
Member

Nov 15, 2005, 12:24 PM

Post #10 of 11 (1071 views)
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Re: [FFC_Fencing] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

Slightly different take on fencing...for years, I used simple post & smooth wire, with a top hot wire. That worked well enough but the old cedar posts were starting to rot, and the horses had broken enough strands over the years that it was time to do something besides splice. Now, to it's credit, I only had one horse ever injured by that crummy old fence.

We replaced with pipe & rail in the front, and HorseGuard electric tape around the sides and back. Rather than tearing the old fence down, we came slightly to the inside of it, so we have, in effect, a double barrier. We also got lazy and used T-posts even for the corner braces (www.kencove.com has the hardware) because our fence line is not long and we don't have a lot of stress on the corners.

We've had this setup for about a year and have not had many problems. I did get a lot of rubbed manes at first from the pipe fence, but welded another run of pipe in the gap that they most enjoyed sticking their heads through.

Two things I do a little differently than many - I put the bottom rail or wire on all my fences up pretty high - at least 2' off the ground. This saves a lot of wrenched legs, broken wires, and the like. And in my pipe fences, I make large gaps between - 18" or more - so that they can't get their heads stuck. It's either that or make them really close, for the same reason. I'm too lazy to put woven wire up all around the inside.

Martha in NM
http://www.valverdemorgans.com

MikePA
New Member / Moderator

Nov 17, 2005, 3:59 PM

Post #11 of 11 (1036 views)
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Re: [stork] electric fencing [In reply to]	Can't Post

Lots of good answers. We have 2 separate pastures fenced with different products. The first pasture we fenced in consists of half round PT posts and four, 1" x 4" x 8' rough cut oak rails. Our horses pushed on it and I had to install a strand of Horseguard Fence on the inside of the top rail connected to a Parmak Solar charger.

When I fenced in the second pasture, I used 4" x 4" x 8' posts and three strands of white Horseguard Fence tape connected to the same Parmak Solar charger. I priced wooden PT rails and they were just too expensive. The white tape against the green pasture looks nice. See attachment.

(This post was edited by MikePA on Nov 17, 2005, 4:06 PM)

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